Thursday, August 12, 2010
A long 'Wich list.
1. The Ruben. This is the pride of New York and rich beyond any sane red line for both salt and cholesterol overdose.
2. The Peanut Butter and Jelly. The kids favorite but adults can have “cosmic” organic one favored by Jerry Brown in his first term or the one with bananas that Evlis loved.
3. The New Orleans Po’Boy. The most famous is the oyster Po’Boy, but they make all sorts of variations and combination.
4. The muffaletta is the other unique Big Easy specialty of Italian cold cuts and olive salad on special round Sicilian loaves. Unlike most sandwiches this one tastes best if you allow it sit undisturbed for at least four hours up or even over night so the pungent olive salad murges all flavors with the cure meats and the crusty bread.
5. The Sloppy Joe was invented in Key West saloon of the same name. It is a favorite with kids and was a staple of school cafeterias in my youth. It is still beloved in the Midwest. This is another blue collar item usually sniffed at by the Foodies and Restaurant Critics because it is messy and simple.
6. The New England Lobster Roll. This simple lobster salad on one of the funny u-shaped Boston hot dog buns. It is a local icon
7. A Chicago Dog. This is the apotheosis of the hot dog. On a fat oval sesame seed bun it is a quarter pound Kosher dog accompanied by a pickle spear, neon green sweet pickle relish, chopped onions and a couple unique local pickled “Sport Peppers” that are about as long as your little finger, Chicago mustard, tomato slices and maybe a little sauerkraut too. A final shake of celery salt is considered the authentic Chicago touch.
8. El Cubano. This Havana & Miami specialty is a pressed ‘wich of ham, cheese and sliced garlicky roast pork. A great ‘wich. The night time variation on sweet egg bread is called the Medianoche. Cuban places also make a ‘wich stuffed with Ropa Vieja, a cuban variation on beef pot roast.
9. A Philly Cheese Steak. Legendary.
10. A Chicago “Italian Beef” ‘wich. Bigger and a lot messier and spicier than a Philipe’s French Dip in LA. Chicago sandwiches tend toward extravagant excess making the Windy City the Vegas of the sandwich world.
11. A St. Paul ‘wich. A midwestern specialty it is essentially a fried egg ‘wich on plain white bread and for some reason a specialty at Chinese and other asian style places. Some say it is Egg Foo Yung ‘wich, others seem to think it is a Chinese Take out’s version of an Egg McMuffin.
12. The grilled cheese. It also had an upscale relative, the grilled ham & cheese. In my opinion you must spread some mustard on the underside of the top to give it a bite.
13. Carolina pulled pork. Smoked tender pork on white bread with a vinegar based BBQ sauce.
14. A Texas brisket ‘wich. The pride of Texas is the tender juicy slow roasted and smoked beef brisket. On white bread with or without a BBQ sauce.
15. The Santa Maria Tri tip ‘wich. Cooked on a live fire of oak wood, this is medium rare beef on a french roll usually with a medium salsa over the meat. Don’t slice it too thick.
This list is almost endless and I am sure any reader could easily add half a dozen other unique sandwiches without any effort at all. For example, Canadians could add a Montreal Smoked Meat sandwich that is made with a varity of meats ranging from beef all the way to Moose.
All photo's are from Wikepedia and in the public domain.
Wednesday, August 11, 2010
The 'wich list, No. 1
1. The Summer ‘Wich.
Take about eight inches of a sourdough batard and slice it in half lengthwise. Slice one large or two medium homegrown tomatoes, cut a couple slices from a sweet flat or torpedo shaped red onion and take a couple leaves of butter lettuce. Now spread mayonnaise on the bottom slice of bread and put the tomato, onion and lettuce on it and put a shake of salt and a grind of black pepper on it then cap with the other half of the bread, squeeze it together but not too hard then cut it in half. You can make this an old county style sandwich by drizzling good olive oil and red wine vinegar in stead of the mayo. Serve with mild pickled banana peppers and home made lemonade.
2. The Blue Collar Diner ‘Wich.
Rarely seen in California, this long time blue collar favorite is still made and enjoyed in the Midwest. Cut two or three quarter inch thick slices of high quality baloney depending on the diameter of the roll. A high quality baloney, a German style (white) baloney, a Kosher baloney or best of all Lebanon Baloney from the Pennsylvania Dutch country all work, although each has it’s own savory salty flavor. Now fry the baloney slices until they are brown but stop before they get crisp. Take a couple slices of rye bread and lay on a heavy spread of a brown Chicago style mustard like Gulden’s. That is the only condiment. Pile the grilled slices on the bread and put the top slice of bread on it and slice in half. That’s it. This is simplicity itself and a robust sandwich fit for breakfast, lunch or dinner, especially in the winter.
3. The Chicken ‘Wich.
This is what you do with the left over roast chicken from the night before. Take the carcass of the bird and cut enough slices large and small to make a sandwich, include any skin left on the bird. Now take two slices of a chewy whole wheat or multigrain bread and spread a light layer of mayonnaise on each. Pile on the chicken, cover with a couple leaves of lettuce, watercress or any other green you have on hand, put the top slice of bread over it and cut into half.
4. The Cold Turkey ‘Wich.
This is essentially the same as the Chicken ‘Wich above except you take slices of both white and dark turkey meat. However on the top piece of bread you spread on a layer of whole cranberry sauce and a thin layer of turkey dressing. Serve this anytime, although you must served it during the three day non stop orgy of TV football games that follow Thanksgiving day.
5. A Golden Gate ‘Wich.
This is the Bay Area traditional variation on the Hamburger. First you chop an onion into small pieces then you mix them into the raw hamburger meat before shaping the burgers. The preferred shape is not the round patty, but an oblong potato shape. Grill the meat over high heat so the outside is crusted while the interior is medium to medium rare. Take a six to eight inch slice of sourdough batard and cut it in half lengthwise. Scoop out about half the inside of the top piece to allow the oblong burger to nest into the bread. This is best when a layer of chili sauce is spread over the meat although some people prefer ketchup and a few use a steak sauce like A-1. If you want cheese, I’d recommend some provolone or swiss. A pickle spear on the side can be added if you prefer but this is a spartan item and should not be “dressed” up like an ordinary hamburger.
Saturday, May 8, 2010
Deviled Eggs & Egg Salad: boring but a blank canvas for something bold or bright.
Basic Deviled Eggs: Boil six eggs, shell them, slice them in half and pop the yokes into a small bowl. Add to the yokes: a quarter cup of mayonnaise, a teaspoon of mustard, a grind or two of white pepper and a pinch of turmeric to hype the yellow color Mash and combine all the ingredients into a paste, put into a pastry bag or into a plastic storage bag, nip the corner of the bag and use it as an ad hoc pastry bag and squeeze the yoke mixture into the cavity left in the half eggs where the yoke used to be.
Photo from Wikipedia
While the above is good, it is also ordinary, even if you have used fresh free range organic eggs with a rich country taste instead of the bland hatchery laid eggs. Using the basic recipe you can take the eggs in a more interesting directions. Here are some ways to pep them up and give them some zip.
Cajun Eggs: Add fresh chopped chives and as much Tobasco Sauce as you want and substitute Creole or another whole grain mustard for the ordinary French’s Salad Mustard.
Green Herb Eggs: Chop up a couple shallots, two tablespoons of fresh parsley, a couple teaspoons of chopped chives and a a tea spoon of capers.
Sicilian Eggs: Add a tablespoon of capers, a table spoon of fresh basil, a teaspoon of lemon zest and a small dab of anchovy paste, mix and dust the stuffed with fine chopped parsley.
New York Eggs: Add a couple pieces of smoked salmon, a quarter teaspoon of chopped fresh dill, one chopped shallot, one teaspoon chopped chives and a quarter teaspoon of prepared horseradish.
Tarragon Eggs: Add a pinch of chopped tarragon, two table spoons of chopped French Cornichons, a quarter teaspoon of lemon zest.
Polish Eggs: Use sour cream instead of mayonnaise, add half a teaspoon of chopped dill, a quarter teaspoon of horseradish, a teaspoon of chopped parsley and a scant teaspoon of Russian style honey mustard.
French Eggs: Add a teaspoon of Dijon Mustard, two teaspoons of chervil if available parsley if not, white pepper and two teaspoons of chopped cornishons.
Yorkshire Eggs: Add a table spoon of Cross & Blackwell’s Chow Chow chopping up the pickle to small nubs, two teaspoons of fresh parsley. Unless you make your own private mustard pickles their is no substitute for Chow Chow.
The list can go on and on with your imagination and ingenuity the only limits.
- xxx -
Friday, May 7, 2010
Anchovy Paste, the once & future seasoning.
Anchovy fillets on a Ceasar Salad. This and the other photos from Wikipedia.
Going through a forty year old LA Times cookbook of recipes from the restaurants of that time I was struck that anchovy paste was often used, not just to rev up salad dressings, but as a seasoning in many dishes and sauces. Today it is almost never mentioned except in family recipes from Italian American cooks like Rachel Ray or others coming from a southern Italian or Sicilian traditions.
This is really too bad because a tube of anchovy paste is handy, even a small can of anchovy fillets in olive oil is way too much for most dishes, unless you are making a bucket size Greek salad or an Italian one of roast peppers and other vegetables for a big party or barbecue.
A good quirt of it replaces salt in gravy and adds a rich bass note, not unlike Asian fish sauce. You don’t taste it, but you get a richer result, so you don’t have to tell people it’s in their plate. It is a very good substitute for salt in any dish that calls for it. It is especially good beef gravies.
A once common use of anchovy fillets in the British Isles, a snack called "Scotch Woodcock."
Historically until the Muslims seized north Africa in the eighth century, Roman and post Roman cooks added Garum, commonly translated as Fish Pickle, to almost everything, just like the Vietnamese, Chinese and other South East Asians. In Spain, Portugal, southern France and Italy anchovies came into use to replace the Garum that for some reason was no longer made on the shores of north Africa.
Bottles of Thai fish sauce.
The Chinese call it Fish Sauce, Nuc Mam in Vietnam, Bagoong or Pitis the Philippines. It is also used all the other Southeast Asian nations. During my year on the Mekong River during the Vietnam war I can attest that the most remarkable pungent awful smell that came from the riverside factories where fish was dried and then fermented into Nuc Mam. The smell was overpowering even if you were miles away. These drying and fermentation factories were always well away from any villages.
Tuesday, May 4, 2010
The joys & sorrows cooking: Memorable dishes & duds.
There are more tricks and tweaks to making soups than I know and as often as not my efforts were disappointing. Some reasons for this are not understanding all the ingredients, not having the right stock or knowing how to finish or served the soup properly.
Two recent disappointments involved red lentils and pearl barley. In the first case I had no idea that red lentils are the most elastic and greedy legume. You soak them for a time before cooking and yet they seem to grow and absorb all the moisture in the pot. A small amount of lentils has an endless and insatiable thirst. Mo matter how much stock, water or wine I added to thin the pot of red lentil soup, the little beggars sucked it up. It was a tasty but very thick gruel of lentils and vegetables. Finally in desperation I called a friend from India where red lentils are much in use. He said dump a pint of whole milk yogurt into the pot. I did and end up with a very rich thick but at least more or less liquid result.
Another dud was attempt to make a very old fashion Scotch Broth. This soup, after the legendary Haggis, is Scotland's number two national dish. The name, Scotch Broth is ironic since it is a very thick and hearty soup, indeed almost a stew. Broth is very definitely something it doesn’t resemble at all. That is the Caledonian joke in the name. Now in this dish the ingredient that is critical is pearl barley. I remember that my grandmother often used it in her soups and so did a couple of the simple Italian American restaurants where we went on Sunday afternoon for two hour long dinners.
At the bottom of the soup bowl was a layer of soft chew round grains of pearl barley and they made the otherwise ordinary minestrone or vegetable soups richer and more interesting.
Now the trouble with this beloved ingredient is estimating the right amount of pearl barley to put in the soup. On my first attempt I followed the recipe and it clearly was not enough. It was so not enough that I poured in another batch of what the recipe called for. Well half an hour later the scotch broth became a gruel that would hardly allow the ladle to move it around. Oooooops.
This week I am going to try to make Hungarian “Hangover” soup which is, if I get it right, a very zippy bowl of paprika rich cabbage, sauerkraut, vegetables, sausages and chicken broth. This tangy soup is one of my favorites at a local Magyar bakery restaurant. I’ll let you know how it goes.
- xxx -
Wednesday, April 21, 2010
Guilty Pleasures
OK, I know anybody with the slightest pretense to being a gourmet, a serious food thinker or a civilized human being is supposed to recoil with horror from most if not all chain produced burgers. In general I do, but like most people there are some chain products that I will enjoy on the quiet
a. McDonalds still have the best fries, always have. The Big Mac is a disgrace but their Angus Burger is compared to the others not a bad burger. I’m talking about the “plain” not tarted up versions. Not bad, especially for the money. The other burgers range from misses to lousy. However if there is a place besides the fries that McDonalds delivers the goods it is at Breakfast, the egg mcmuffin is pretty good and the sausage and egg biscuit is good, if you omit the cheese which doesn’t add any taste and in my opinion is like a gooey plastic.
b. The Wendy’s basic hamburger is not bad at all, in fact it is probably the best big chain burger of the lot.
c. OK here it comes, I’m now and always have been a sucker for Carl’s Western Bacon Cheese Hamburger. There I said it and it’s true. The basic “$6 Burger” is better than most. I don’t think the other hyper burger versions are as good and most of them go from decadent to insane sloppy feats of shameless gluttony. The one that oozes all over the lovely Padma is out and out pornography saying telling us more about the Indian beauty than the sandwich. The Famous Star is a good burger, almost as good as Wendy’s classical basic burger.
d. Jack in the Box make a Sourdough Hamburger that is almost as addictive as the Western Bacon Cheese Burger. This is the west coast take on the classic Paddy Melt which is on rye with swiss or provolone. The other thing I admit to liking at Jack’s is their Super Taco which is pretty damned good for a bunch of gavachos from San Diego.
e. Burger King is number two in the chain world. They are in second place for good reason. As Winston Churchill said of his counter part across the House, Clement Attlee, “He is modest man with a lot to be modest about.” I can’t summon up the slightest guilty pleasure for anything on their menu. This is odd because almost every other chain has something they do well, Wendy’s baked potatoes, Del Tacol’s Fiesta Salad and real English Tetley's brewed ice tea with real lemon wedges -- just two examples. And it’s not that they haven’t tried innovations. They have and all were duds.
f. In’n Out. Sure the burger is good, but for me I wish it was bigger by about half. I don’t like the double double, but I would like the regular burger to be bigger so one is enough.
g. I have only had one Sonic Burger and was surprised, but I don’t know enough to say more than the place is different and warrants further study. Some people I know who spend time in the Central Valley swear by Sonic as the Prince of chain burger joints. It does have real Texas attitude.
h. Finally, what can I say about Tommy’s Chili Burger? It is an dependable old friend and a soul soothing bit of real LA. It doesn’t need any cheese. If you don’t like it, then move to Seattle and live sunless in the gray mist under gloomy dripping conifers and drive a mud spattered Subaru down the clammy streets and endure the musty smell of wet wool sweaters and over roasted coffee fumes.
Pax vobiscum. (Catholic for Aloha, Shalom and Salaam)
- xxx -
Monday, April 19, 2010
The seasonal return of Green Corn Tamales
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>Sure, Alice Waters and Wolfgang Puck do great things, but this is one of LA’s greatest and most beloved comfort foods, like a double dipped beef sandwich at Phillipe’s or a Tommy’s chili burger on the way home from a pub crawl. It is like bacon and eggs at the Original Pantry, a Pastrami Sandwich at Langer's or a Chili Dog at Carnies.
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>The green corn tamales are simplicity itself. They are fresh sweet white corn kernels mixed with chilies and sweet salty white cheese encased in masa dough, wrapped in dried corn husks and steamed until all the ingredients melt into a sweet fresh soul caressing wholeness.
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>Of the original El Cholo on Western Avenue down near USC and the other new locations I prefer the one in Pasadena. The original has a great bar but the chaotic cluster of dinning rooms and the often brusk “tourist trap” service and the crowds put me off.
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>The one thing about El Cholo besides being LA’s oldest Mexican Restaurant is the reality that it is family owned and even more is very much a kitchen that still cooks in the style of the family’s Sonora heritage. The Green Corn Tamales and a number of their signature dishes are very authentic Sonora cooking. The piled up not rolled enchiladas and the choizo tostada for example are also Sonoran as are the pinto beans.
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>When you need soothing affirmative comfort food, I commend El Cholo and the Green Corn Tamales, a bowl of guacamole prepared table side and a bottle of cold Dos XX and what more could you want.
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>- xxx -
Saturday, March 20, 2010
St. Patrick’s Day recipes & tips
Green Salad
The salad dressing recipe was from a British web site adapted with my memory of smooth house dressings at Robaire’s French Restaurant. The almond oil was from Robaire's. The turmeric was added for color.
half a cup of sherry vinegar
one cup of olive oil
half a cup of almond oil
tablespoon of Dijon mustard
salt & pepper
tablespoon of dried parsley
teaspoon of dried chives
half teaspoon paprika
half teaspoon of turmeric
Whisk together and set aside for at least four hours.
The salad was butter lettuce and mixed organic greens served with Asparagus and pickled beets and onions
The asparagus were trimmed, cooked in boiling water then blanched in ice water. The beet salad was simplicity itself, two cans of pickled beets with two small red onions thinly sliced. After four hours, the pickled beet juice mellowed and turned the onion bright red.
The Corned Beef
Many years ago sitting at the counter at Langer’s Deli near downtown LA, my wife and I talked to one of the cooks and he told us how to cook corned beef at home. At Langer's they put the corned beef into steam cabinets that hold the meat at about 190 degrees for six to eight hours. The key to keeping it tender and juicy is never to let it boil.
At home a crock pot is ideal to match this deli slow cooking. Ten hours before dinner put two pieces of corned beef about 4 pounds each into the crock pot plus a quarter cut of mixed pickling spices. In my family we pour in two cups of Apple Cider vinegar or if you have it black malt vinegar. The cider vinegar give a bit of brightness, the malt vinegar is strong and sweet. Then fill the crock pot with cold water up to half an inch of the rim, cover and put on low. Turn the meat two or three times during cooking. When the meat is done (usually around eight hours) you can turn the crock pot off.
To cook the vegetables take about half the cooking water from the crock pot and ladle it into a large pot and add water to cook the carrots, parsnips, turnips and onions and potatoes and cook them on the stove. Bring to a boil and then let simmer until they are cook to your taste. The old country Irish cook them soft, but today most of us prefer them with some texture but not Al Dente. This is up to you.
Tips & suggestions
Don’t peel or cut the onions, the skins will come off and the whole onion will not fall apart while cooking. While you are carving the corned beet put in a whole cabbage cut into eighths, or quarters if you have two small cabbages. Do not cut off the core. It will hold the cabbage wedges together.
Serve the sliced corned beef on a platter along with a platter of the vegetables.
I use an electric knife to do the slicing. Since very few home cooks have professional grade knives or the skill to keep them sharp, the electric knife is the most reliable way to carve the meat. They are less than $20 at Target. Emeril Lagasse , Elton Brown, Bobby Flay and other Food Channel headliners recommend them for home kitchens.
To be traditional small white rose potatoes would be cooked with the other root vegetables. Parsnips and turnips are optional, but traditional in Ireland if you have them. In Irish slang Turnips are called “nips” while potatoes are called “spuds” or “praties" (pray'tee's). Most Irish families serve horse radish and mustard with the corned beef.
Tastes vary widely but I served the corned beef with a hot sweet Russian style mustard, a strong German style mustard and a whole grain Dijon mustard. Gulden's Spicy Brown or "Chicago Style" mustard is not surprisingly very close to tangy German Mustard. In Ireland they use Coleman’s English Mustard which is very very sharp, too sharp for American taste. But you can find Coleman's in most supermarkets is you want to be authentic and fearless.
In Los Angeles, we have a famous and ferocious local mustard, Phillipe’s house made mustard is available at the restaurant by the jar. This summer a French college student we took there told us he loved the mustard and the double dipped beef made him feel at home. He was from Grenoble and I later discovered so was the founder Phillipe. The sandwich is not called the "French Dip" for nothing. The name of the place should be pronounced Fil-LEAP in the French manner, but this being LA we pronounce it like the Spanish Filipe. ¿Porque no?
St. Patrick's Day and our Corned Beef dinner
The St. Patrick's Day menu of corned beef and cabbage is an American traditional meal like the Turkey Dinner of Thanksgiving Day, the grilled hot dogs and hamburgers of Forth of July and the barbecue with potato salad lemonade and watermelon on Labor Day. There are also other regional or national ethnic festivals like Cinco de Mayo with tacos and margarita, Columbus Day with Spaghetti and meat balls, in Chicago and the Midwest you have von Stueben Day with bratwust and Beer and Pulaski Day with kilbasa and beer, in Texas you have June Teen with big day long family barbecues and soul food, and Puerto Rico’s national day with the big parade and pork sandwiches in New York. There are of course many many other local or regional ethnic festivals like the sequence of Holy Ghost Festivals in small towns in central California with boiled beef dinners and other dishes brought from Portugal’s Açores Islands, the annual Lutefisk Dinners in Minnesota’s Scandinavian Parish Halls, Crab Feeds in San Francisco, Shrimp Boils in Louisiana and the Gulf Coast, Lobster Boils in New England and cedar planked salmon in the Pacific Northwest.
Like the Turkey Dinner, the Corn Beef and Cabbage dinner is American. While identified with the Irish and Jews, neither group ever ate the stuff in the “old country.” In Ireland a dinner of cured pork shoulder was the tradition while corned beef didn’t exist at all in Poland’s Jewish communities. However, both adopted this American product when they got here. Both today consider it their favorite party meat. The only significant difference is that Jews often add cloves of garlic to the cooking water for an extra bite. The Irish don’t add garlic.
As close cousin of the Corned Beef & Cabbage is New England Boiled Dinner. Not much seen here in California, in this meal corned beef is replaced with a pork shoulder ham often called Picnic Ham. Otherwise the dish is much the same with potatoes and a number of root vegetables, onions and cabbage. My Grandfather Mellow preferred this to corned beef, he didn’t like because it got stringy and got caught in his teeth. My Grandmother made this often in winter. Although born in California herself, her parents were born in New England and brought this recipe with them.
We had a St. Patrick's Day dinner the saturday before and followed the tradition with one exception, one of the couples are great fan’s of my late wife’s home fried potatoes which we made instead of boiling them root vegetables. The other California change to the menu was a big green salad served with pencil thin asparagus which had just come into season and was a real delight. In my family we always preferred the thin fresh asparagus to the thicker stalks restaurants seem to prefer. The thin ones are more tender and more vibrant in flavor.
In the next post are cooking tips and recipe’s for our version of the St. Patrick's Day meal. And so until next year, ERIN GO BRAGH -- Ireland forever in the Gaelic. That is one of the two Gaelic phrases most American Irishmen know, the other is Pos’ ma hone! -- kiss my ass.
Friday, February 12, 2010
Southern California slow smoked brisket.
When you need a lot of meat for a party, a whole brisket can do the job.
At most wholesale grocers whole briskets are available in seal plastic bags.
They weight fifteen to twenty pounds.
Mixing steps from a cluster of styles he’s how I do it.
1. Marinate the meat in the plastic bag. I prefer malt vinegar which gives a rich, dark but slightly sweet bite to the meat. I put a cup of pickling spice into the sack and rub it onto the meat. Next I pour in the malt vinegar -- available at Smart & Final and other wholesale grocers in gallon jugs for less than ten dollars. I seal the bag up with clips and set it in a plastic bag. I marinate it for two or three days, turning it a couple times each day.
2. Prepare the meat. Take out of the marinade and dry with paper towels. Then I rub on crack pepper, but not too much. To fit my smoker, I cut the brisket in half.
3. Prepare the smoker. fill the fire pan with charcoal and light it off with kindling or start the fire in a metal charcoal lighter. Fill the steam pan with water and sliced oranges and lemons. When the temperature gauge reaches midway into the cooking range, add the meat and cover.
Every three or four hours you will need to stoke the fire with additional charcoal and check the level of the steam pan and add water if low.
4. After twenty four hours the meat will be ready. The slow wet smoke will have melted most of the fat but not dried the meat like a dry smoker would. Take the meat out and allow it to rest twenty minutes to half an hour. I use an electric knife to slice the meat and put it on platters. Tent with aluminum foil until ready to serve.
5. Serve with mild and sharp mustards, house radish and sour dough and rye bread.
6. Side dishes that work with this are a potato salad, a tart cole slaw, a selection of pickles, olives and peppers.
Notes: A native Californian, I favor wet vinegar based marinades. In Texas and the South they prefer dry rubs and often apply them a day or even two before cooking so they can work into the meat.
When the meat is put into the smoke make sure the fat side is on top.
The sharp yet sweet malt vinegar gives a richness to the meat that a wine or apple cider vinegar does not.